Oberiko, welcome!
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Statute of Finwë and Míriel
Concerning your recent edits, and to elude an edit war, please explain. Why do you think that twelve years had passed after the proclamation of the Statute? Yes, Námo indeed declared that such a term should pass before the marriage can dissolved. But there's already a precedent of this: the case of Finwë and Míriel. He waited twelve years, but all those years his wife stubbornly refused to re-embody, so their marriage was dissolved. All of this complies with the dates from The Annals of Aman: Y.T. 1170 + 12 = Y.T. 1182 + 3 = Y.T. 1185. -- Ar-Zigûr (talk) 12:32, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
Changes of infobox images and marking edits as minor edits
Welcome to Tolkien Gateway and thank you for your interest in improving the content on page in Tolkien Gateway. I noticed that you changed images in infoboxes on at least two pages (the Angrod and Írimë pages) without first discussing your intent to change the images on the talk pages (discussion pages) of the rescpective pages and without waiting for feedback. The Images section of the Tolkien Gateway:Manual of Style requires to discuss the intent to change an image in an infobox on the talk page (of the respective page) before changing the image in the infobox on a page. I also noticed that your frequently mark edits as minor edits, which did not seem to be minor edits. According to Wikipedia's help page for the editing of pages a minor edit is a version that the editor believes requires no review and could never be the subject of a dispute [1]. Please keep these rules in mind in the future. --Akhôrahil (talk) 08:08, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
Tense
Hi. Good work with the Debate of the Valar article. But please, as you must have noticed Tolkien Gateway has all its articles in past tense. Please, apply this style to your article. --LorenzoCB (talk) 12:19, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
Sources and italics
Hi Oberiko!
When including sources (at least those from HoME), it's preferable to provide page numbers - in fact, check out the 'Help' section in the left sidebar to get a better grip on TG's editing practices in general.
Also, when talking about real-world writings in an article, such as, say, The Book of Lost Tales etc., you should put these in italics. - IvarTheBoneless (talk) 14:47, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
Ecthelion and Egalmoth
Why did you revert my edits? The quote from The Nature of Miidle-earth states this: "It may anyway be observed that though Quenya names were not used, those used were probably all the names of renowned heroes in the royal lines of old as recorded in legend. Some may come from tales now lost; but Húrin, Túrin, Hador, Barahir, Dior, Denethor, Orodreth, Ecthelion, Egalmoth, Beren are from legends recorded." I think the list is about heroes of the First Age, after whom the Ruling Stewards were named. -- Ar-Zigûr (talk) 15:17, 20 July 2024 (UTC) Ar-Zigûr (talk) 15:17, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- Ah, I see. I didn't connect that directly. I'm happy to put it back, but could we be more specific? Something like "The later Ruling Stewards of Gondor were probably all named after renowned heroes in the royal lines of old. Egalmoth's/Ecthelion's name was eponymously used by STEWARD." Oberiko (talk) 21:36, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- You're right. I corrected that. -- Ar-Zigûr (talk) 10:20, 21 July 2024 (UTC) Ar-Zigûr (talk) 10:20, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
Sauron in NoME
In your latest edit on the 'Sauron' article in which you mentioned that it was Sauron who first discovered the Elves, you reference p. 107 of NoME - but I couldn't find any such thing in my own copy. The best I could find is on p. 106, which says that "...and there were various ill-chances and losses (especially after Sauron discovered the Quendi)."
However:
1) I fail to see that this quote means that it was Sauron who first discovered the Elves (it's much too ambiguous), especially given the first part of the above quote listing 'various ill-chances and losses' which could be due to any number of things, including other servants of Melkor
2) this isn't, by any stretch, the last that Tolkien wrote on this subject - so, even if it is to be included, it shouldn't be in the main text of the article IvarTheBoneless (talk) 19:06, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- Ok, I'm fine to move it from the main text, how would you suggest incorporating it? Oberiko (talk) 04:02, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
Edits on the Tar-Ciryatan and Tar-Ancalimë pages
I reviewed your edits on the Tar-Ciryatan and Tar-Ancalimë pages and made some corrections, added references and adjusted some references to be in line with the references used on the pages for other rulers of Númenor. I deleted some details of Sauron being in league with "Men of Dearkness" and the meaning of this term opposed to Middle-men, because the page is about Tar-Ciryatan and not about the War of the Elves and Sauron and should not go into too much detail. More detail about the deforestation causing the forest-dwellers in Enedwaith who are related to the folk of Haleth and thus Middle-men to become hostile and were considered Men of Darkness by the Númenóreans because they were hostile to the Númenóreans and because their language was not related to the language of the House of Hador and thus to Adûnaic, them fleeing from Enedwaith to Dunland and becoming spies and guides for the raiders of Sauron could be integrated in the page about the War of the Elves and Sauron. The start of the hostilities with the forest-dwellers of Enedwaith may have been before the life of Tar-Ciryatan, which makes it further difficult to integrate this on the Tar-Ciryatan page. I have already integrated some information on the Enedwaith page. On the Tar-Ciryatan page I focused on the main movements of Sauron and his enemies and on the main battles and sieges that occurred during the life of Tar-Ciryatan. The history of the Second Age is quite complicated and is spread out over different sources (i.e. the appendices of LOTR, UT, PM and NM. --Akhôrahil (talk) 14:29, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
One of the four kindreds of Nargothrond?
The name "Wards of Narog" appears on pages 66 (line 1746) and 88. As a continuation of Talk:Guilin#Description from Lays of Beleriand, which of the four kindreds of the Nargothronders do you think they are? Or is the name probably a collective name for all four kindreds?Dour1234 (talk) 22:48, 26 September 2025 (UTC)
- I'm actually thinking my initial position was incorrect.
- From the same body of text, we have the following describing Turgon's escape from Unnumbered Tears: "Thus seven kindreds, | a countless company, that king guided | through darkened dales and drear mountains | out of ken of his foes – he comes no more | in the tale of Túrin." Additionally, we have another version of the "four kindreds": "Of the four kindreds that followed the king, | most noble of name, renowned in valour, the watchtowers’ lords, the wold’s keepers | from Fuilin’s children were first chosen, | and the guards of the bridge, the gleaming bow | that was flung o’er the foaming froth of Ingwil."
- It thus seems like there were four houses in Nargothrond (like the twelve in Gondolin) with Fuilin / Guilin likely at the head of one of them. With his house being "renowned in valour", his children were among the elite of roles such as "watchtower's lords" or "wold's keepers" (the latter of which was the station which Gwindor apparently held).
- My guess would be that the "Wards of Narog" were sentries upon the River Narog itself; potentially another outer scouting role.Oberiko (talk) 22:15, 27 September 2025 (UTC)
- I am actually thinking that the Wards of Narog was the collective term for all the kindreds of Nargothrond. Later on, there is the term “woods of Narog” and other similar terms in addition to more mentions of such warders of that area.Dour1234 (talk) 22:27, 27 September 2025 (UTC)