Talk:14 February

From Tolkien Gateway

Mirror and Gandalf[edit source]

In my version of the Appendix B of "The Return of the King" the two events in Arda happen at the 15th of February 3019. But at they happen like here at the 14th. What's right? -- Eldarion Telcontar 12:50, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

My copy says 14th. -- Ederchil 13:01, 12 May 2008 (EDT)
Very odd... I have the black 3 Book Box set from Harpercollins. Because I have nowhere else found the 15th the 14th will be right. -- Eldarion Telcontar 13:53, 12 May 2008 (EDT)
This is a correction in the 50th Anniversary edition, and in the 2005 version of that only (so not in the DeLuxe, or the HC hardbound one volume editions). Hammond and Scull explain in the Reader's Companion on p. 718, why the dating of Galadriel's mirror has to be corrected from 14th to 15th, but they do not explain why Gandalf's return to life has to be moved with it. -- Mithrennaith 20:06, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
Well, what shall we write now? The old dating from Tolkien or the surely well thought out corrections of the newer edition? I think we can at least correct the dating of Galadriel's mirror to 15th because the corrections were made by Tolkien himself or his son, weren't they? -- Eldarion Telcontar 17:37, 15 May 2008 (EDT)
All changes for the 50th Anniversary Edition clearly had the approval of Christopher Tolkien. Also the reason given by Hammond&Scull is very convincing: It's clear from the narrative that the Fellowship leaves Lórien the next day after Frodo&Sam have looked into the Mirror. So that can't be 16th and 14th respectively at the same time. Chronology of subsequent events depends upon the departure being the 16th. So the Mirror must be on the 15th. - I don't know whether the return to life of Gandalf is linked in the narrative to either event, but it was clearly thought (by H&S and/or CJRT) that if JRRT put Gandalf's return and the Mirror together they had better stay together. - So my vote would be to put both on the 15th. -- Mithrennaith 00:11, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
Yes, it sounds logical that both events happened on the same day. Maybe one event depends on the other (e.g. Galadriel shows Frodo and Samwise the mirror when she learns that Gandalf is sent back to complete his task). And because the correction had the approval of Tolkiens son we can move both events to February_15, I think (I will do so). -- Eldarion Telcontar 05:12, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
Maybe we could include an explanatory note, with <noinclude></noinclude> around it, so it doesn't show on the first page? Or a shorter link to this page? which would look something like this: [[February 15#Note]]<noinclude>==Note==blablabla</noinclude>, so the story's at the article page? Or am I completely not making sense? -- Ederchil 09:48, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
I find that a very good idea. Without such a note people who don't have the corrected edition will ask why the events are on the wrong date. So it will all be explained. But the note should appear both on February_15 and February_14 I think. -- Eldarion Telcontar 14:19, 16 May 2008 (EDT)