Inclusion of material from Canto VIII
There's some interesting material in Canto VIII about Huan that I think we could include, especially the part (emphasis mine) that he followed Celegorm into battle and "often" saved him.
...Hounds untold baying in woods beyond the West of race immortal he possessed: grey and limber, black and strong, white with silken coats and long, brown and brindled, swift and true as arrow from a bow of yew; their voices like the deeptoned bells that ring in Valmar's citadels, their eyes like living jewels, their teeth like ruel-bone. As sword from sheath they flashed and fled from leash to scent for Tavros’ joy and merriment. In Tavros’ friths and pastures green had Huan once a young whelp been. He grew the swiftest of the swift, and Oromë gave him as a gift to Celegorm, who loved to follow the great God's horn o'er hill and hollow. Alone of hounds of the Land of Light, when sons of Fëanor took to flight and came into the North, he stayed beside his master. Every raid and every foray wild he shared, and into mortal battle dared. Often he saved his Gnomish lord from Orc and wolf and leaping sword. A wolf-hound, tireless, grey and fierce he grew; his gleaming eyes would pierce all shadows and all mist, the scent moons old he found through fen and bent, through rustling leaves and dusty sand; all paths of wide Beleriand he knew. But wolves, he loved them best; he loved to find their throats and wrest their snarling lives and evil breath. The packs of Thû him feared as Death. No wizardry, nor spell, nor dart, no fang, nor venom devil's art could brew had harmed him; for his weird was woven. Yet he little feared that fate decreed and known to all: before the mightiest he should fall, before the mightiest wolf alone that ever was whelped in cave of stone.
Thoughts? Oberiko (talk) 13:32, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
Errors in "Origin and Nature" and Huan's undecided status as a Maia.
In the "Origin and Nature" section it says:
"For some time Tolkien considered Huan as a dog-shaped Maia. Later, however, Tolkien decided that Huan was in fact just an animal, despite being a 'higher level' one."
However, when you follow the citation to the section in Morgoth's Ring, you find a small 1959 essay Tolkien wrote on the origins of orcs which speculates on whether Huan was a Maia or not:
"But true 'rational' creatures, 'speaking peoples', are all of human / 'humanoid' form. Only the Valar and Maiar are intelligences that can assume forms of Arda at will. Huan and Sorontar could be Maiar - emissaries of Manwe.(4) But unfortunately in The Lord of the Rings Gwaehir and Landroval are said to be descendants of Sorontar.(5) ... The same sort of thing may be said of Huan and the Eagles: they were taught language by the Valar, and raised to a higher level - but they still had no fëar."
In the notes following the essay, Christopher Tolkien cites a note scribbled on the bottom of the paper that essay was on lumps Huan in with the Maiar.
"... Living things in Aman. As the Valar would robe themselves like the Children, many of the Maiar robed themselves like other lesser living things, as trees, flowers, beasts. (Huan.)"
I could find no later writing that supports the Wiki's assertion that Tolkien later decided that he was just an animal. In fact, I found something that I believe would make Huan's "non-Maia" status a premature assumption.
As you can see from the 1959 orc essay excerpts, Tolkien lumps speculation on Huan's status as a Maia in with the Eagles. In a very late text from 1970, Tolkien takes the stance that eagles are Maiar:
"The most notable were those Maiar who took the form of the mighty speaking eagles that we hear of in the legends of the war of the Ñoldor against Melkor, and who remained in the West of Middle-earth until the fall of Sauron and the Dominion of Men, after which they are not heard of again. Their intervention in the story of Maelor, in the duel of Fingolfin and Melkor, in the rescue of Beren and Lúthien is well known. (Beyond their knowledge were the deeds of the Eagles in the war against Sauron: in the rescue of the Ring Finder and his companions, in the Battle of Five Armies, and in the rescue of the Ringbearer from the fires of Mount Doom.)"
So, at the very least he was undecided on Huan's Maia status. Unless someone can find where he later decides that he was just a beast, I think the article needs to be adjusted to reflect this. MOONBOLT (talk) 17:39, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- I think you may have misinterpreted the text Myths Transformed VIII, from 1959. Tolkien uses "Huan and Sorontar could be Maiar - emissaries of Manwe" as an initial hypothesis, which he immediately dismisses in the following sentence ("But unfortunately (...)"). At the end of the text, he concludes that Landroval and Huan are animals. In other words, in the 1959 text, it’s not as if Tolkien presents the hypothesis of Maia vs. soulless animals on equal footing, but rather that the overall message of the text establishes the animalistic nature of Landroval and Huan.
- It’s like saying, "I could be rich. But unfortunately, I chose a profession that doesn’t make much money." In this case, Tolkien seemed to entertain the possibility but quickly dismissed the idea. The general message of the text ultimately establishes that Landroval and Huan are animals. In other words, the hypothesis that both could be Maiar was an option Tolkien considered, but quickly rejected.
- Until the publication of The Nature of Middle-earth, this was the most recent and well-argued text on the matter. It made sense to understand that brief note ("(...) many of the Maiar robed themselves like other lesser living things, as trees, flowers, beasts. (Huan.)") as a text prior to the more fully developed position later expressed. Even the text of The Silmarillion, where the Eagles emerged long after the spirits of kelvar and olvar were summoned to give rise to the Ents, seems to corroborate this — Tolkien had the opportunity to give spirits to the Eagles, but he chose not to.
- However, with the release of The Nature of Middle-earth, a later text from 1970 appeared, in which Tolkien seems to forget the arguments from Myths Transformed, particularly the impossibility of Gwaihir descending from Thorondor if both were Maiar. What to make of this? Personally, I prefer to believe it was a lapse of Tolkien’s, in the same way that other lapses from this period (his last three years of life) can be found. For example, in the very book he conjectures that Aman became the Americas, and the editor Carl F. Hostetter is surprised by how little this reflects previous legendarium tales. Another lapse is forgetting that Celebrimbor is said to be a descendant of Fëanor in The Lord of the Rings and instead suggesting other ancestries for him. Haran (talk) Template:Data