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Talk:Ruth Lacon

Discussion page of Ruth Lacon
Latest comment: 10 June 2010 by Earendilyon in topic Pseudonyms
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What's her birth name and what's the pseudonym? Birth name should be main article, imo. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits)

Interesting, I had no idea that they're the same person. I made a search on google, and could only find some discussions on forums that refer to this fact/claim. Do we have any other sources? --Morgan 14:11, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ruth Lacon is her name, Elizabeth Currie is the pseudonym she uses for writing. It's an open secret amongst active Tolkien Society members.
As for a source I'll have to see if I can find one - I think it came up in Amon Hen or Mallorn some years ago. Without the source I can tell you that this is categorically true, however. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 18:34, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
OK, will this do? This is two a letter to the then editor of Mallorn, Len Sanford, with his response.

Please find enclosed for your attention a copy of a letter sent to Andrew Butler on 20/03/2006, after I had received legal advice on the editorial of Amon Hen no.198 and related matters. As the editors of the second offical publication of The Tolkien Society, I do think you should be made aware of this situation in case any similar requests to print statements breaching confidence should be made to you. If any such breach of confidence or other unwarranted and insulting material regarding myself and Mr Alex Lewis appears in Mallorn, I will be exceedingly angry. This situation needs to be resolved for the good of the Society rather than made worse.
Ruth Lacon

And a response:

Miss Lacon is referring to the confidential information that she and Alex Lewis are a couple (made public at Oxonmoot 2003 in the form of photographs of their Rivendell style bedchamber) and that she and author Elizabeth Currie are the same person (made public at Oxonmoot 2005). This quite accidentally became an issue when Ruth heavily praised Ms Currie's (ie, her own) book in AH197 and Alex powerfully endorsed Ruth's art show and art book in the same issue. But the information about the connections among these folk was unaccountably left out, by some freak editorial accident, no doubt.
As Ruth quite correctly points out, it is for the good of the society that such things are cleared up, especially where artwork and books are being sold to members, and we are glad to have provided this platform to do so. Ed.

The aforementioned editorial in Amon Hen 198 states, amongst other things:

I have been informed by several members that Elizabeth Currie is a pen-name of Ruth Lacon, who (for those who don't already know) is Alex Lewis' girlfriend. You might wish to bear this in mind when reading items like Alex' art exhibition report and Ruth's Tom Bombadil letter in the previous issue of Amon Hen.

Online, posts by various people here, here and especially here all corroborate this. I know these are anecdotal, but worth remembering. I personally thought this was all common knowledge, but apparently not! --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 19:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Well, I'm convinced by know! ;-) IMHO, we have enough sources for supporting the claim. --Morgan 05:12, 10 June 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]


I personally don't think we should give Elizabeth Currie a separate article: it should redirect to Ruth Lacon and the article can start off with "Ruth Lacon, who also uses the pseudonym Elizabeth Currie,...". after all, we don't have separate articles for "Elessar" and "Aragorn II" - why should one person get two articles? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 11:49, 10 June 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A redirect would be an option, of course. The reason I created (or, kept) the tentative article on EC is because we have a category of pseudonyms. However, I created this cat myself, so if other people have opinions on the necessity or desirability of such a cat, I'm open to suggestions. --Morgan 12:44, 10 June 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There are many characters and people that have more than one article. Maybe Aragorn II redirects to Aragorn II, but there are articles on other psudonyms or titles he held. Such as Thorongil, Strider (Aragorn), Wingfoot and Telcontar. --Pinkkeith 13:07, 10 June 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Note: The cat "Pseudonyms" (as I envision it) only contains real-world persons. --Morgan 12:49, 10 June 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Pinkkeith, I have been arguing against the doubling of articles in that manner for... however long I've been here (four years?). I think it's superfluous, confusing, and pointless, really; although, I have noticed recently that this trend has been beginning to change. Incidentally, Wikipedia doesn't do this (this applies to everything, not just Tolkien-related article), and neither do Tuckborough or Ardapedia; Robert Foster's excellent The Complete Guide to Middle-earth does not do this either. I think it's a bad habit we picked up from The Encyclopedia of Arda: in the early days we stole their entire content.
Anyway, basically I'm pretty consistent on this in thinking that a single entity should have a single article. This issue pops up every now and again; I expect this isn't the last time it'll be debated! But, other names and titles is exactly what "(Other) Names and Titles" sections are for in articles.--Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 16:19, 10 June 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This is turning into a meta-discussion of the structure of TG! ;-)
What do you guys think about putting redirect pages in categories? Case in point, "Elizabeth Currie" would only consist of the code: "#REDIRECT [[Ruth Lacon]] [[CATEGORY:Pseudonyms]] [[CATEGORY:Authors|Currie, Elizabet]]". Now, why would we want this? 1) We would skip doubling of articles 2) People merely surfing on TG (not searching) would perhaps end up in categories that contain info they find interesting (e.g., I would find it interesting to get an overview of the different pseudonyms related to the world of Tolkien). --Morgan 16:47, 10 June 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Personally, I think we could make a difference between mere titles of a person and a pseudonym under which somebody acted. For example, Elassar was a title of Aragorn's, but Thorongil was a pseudonym under which he fought many wars for Gondor. Elassar was, so to speak, just an addition to Aragorn's name, while Thorongil was an alter ego of him. The first I would redirect to the article Aragorn II, while the second would get a seperate article (with, of course, clear reference to the chief article). Likewise for "real life" persons. ~ Earendilyon 17:56, 10 June 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]