Talk:Timeline of Galadriel

From Tolkien Gateway

Lorenzo, I was wondering what (base) version of Galadriel's history will you be including here, and in the article on Galadriel; or are you planning to combine several different ones? So far as I can tell, the published Silmarillion seems to be the default on TG - however, I think the version of her history in The Road Goes Ever On should be the basis, since it was published by Tolkien himself while he was still alive. - IvarTheBoneless 10:24, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

The same as The Silmarillion and TRGEO, in which Galadriel is rebellious. As you can already see in my sandbox, the main source I used for Galadriel's life in Aman is "The Shibboleth of Fëanor", which is a very mature work, and also presents Galadriel as a prideful rebel but also totally anti-Fëanor. But of course, in the OVOTL I will detail the evolution of Galadriel throughout the composition of the legendarium. Second Age is a mess, and I'm about to get into it, so I cannot say details, but I will use the same basis, as well as some of the mature notes of The Nature of Middle-earth which I've already spot. --LorenzoCB 11:51, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
Oh, gotcha. Personally, I'm trying really hard to wrap my head around all the different versions - it's sheer chaos! Honestly, I have to applaud you for dipping your toes into this mess.
Also, given the upcoming RoP series, do you think I should try my hand at Celebrimbor article? I think I have enough time at my disposal right now to give it a try. - IvarTheBoneless 12:10, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
In the Discord server we began a list of articles to be improved with the series in sight. It will be great if you get into a needed character like Celebrimbor if you are able. --LorenzoCB 12:37, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
Have you noticed my post in the 12,000 articles thread in the forums on Tolkien Gateway? I brought up the suggestion to start working on pages that relate to characters that may appear in the upcoming The Rings of Power series and that relate to the Second Age. I read through and wanted to do work on the Celeborn page and the Celebrimbor and noticed how complex the various sources are and that one would need to come up with a strategy first and should ideally coordinate the content between pages of people or events where several people are involved in. According to my analysis J.R.R. Tolkien and Christopher Tolkien in The Lord of the Rings and in the Silmarillion did not make an explicit statement that Celeborn was a Sindar (only that he was a kinsman of Thingol, but a kinsman could also be a descendent of a relative of Thingol who went to Aman and thus be considered a Teler rather than a Sindar). J.R.R. Tolkien only said that he was a Sindar in The Road Goes Ever on, which was published during his lifetime. Consistency was very important for Tolkien and he did some changes in the second edition of The Lord of the Rings and in a later edition of The Hobbit to ensure consistency. He also seems to have felt bound by what was already published in The Lord of the Rings, especially in the maps and even changed the text about the journey in the second edition of The Lord of the Rings to make it more consistent with the map. In my opinion, it is best to combine information from several sources. If the sources conflict in a point one should go with what was published during during J.R.R. Tolkien's lifetime or in The Silmarillion and should explain conflicting points in the OVOTL section. As far as the etymology of the name of Celeborn is concerned, I tend to agree with the S Celeborn1 entry on eldamo.org that the point that Celeborn was a Teler from Valinor should go to the OVOTL, but that the meaning of his name can still be "derived" from Telerin (or ancient Telerin), because the Sindar are Teleri or descended from Teleri. This also has an implication for the etymology of Galadriel whose mother was a Teleri. I am in favour of retaining as much as possible from Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn in the main section of the pages, because it is the most detailed description and to only remove points where Christopher Tolkien also thought that his father changed his mind (e.g. that Amroth was not the son of Celeborn and Galadriel, but the son of Amdir). I am also in favour of keeping the idea that Celebrimbor kind of rebelled against Celeborn and Galadriel in Eregion and that he only became Lord of Eregion after that and that Celeborn and Galadriel were the lords and founders of Eregion before. --Akhorahil 14:27, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
You are right Akhorahil. And we need consistency not only in the narratives, but also in how the different versions are presented in OVOTL. Definitely not the hotchpotch of the current Galadriel article. Maybe you should wait till I have finished revising it (and corrected by the community) before getting into other articles. I'm doing it with calm, but I won't leave it unfinished.--LorenzoCB 14:55, 5 August 2022 (UTC)