User talk:Jasca Ducato

From Tolkien Gateway

You've been really active and you're doing a great job. By the way, when you move page, the talk page is automatically moved as well. --Narfil Palùrfalas 15:01, 4 September 2006 (EDT)

Dates of death of Alatar and Pallando[edit]

What's your source for the dates (years) of Alatar's and Pallando's deaths? --Earendilyon 16:49, 4 September 2006 (EDT)

It says on their articles that they joined Saruman on his journey into the East. This is most likely where he was corrupted by Sauron and chances are Alatar and Pallando didn't cooperate and were executed. It is impossible for this to have not occured sometime before III 3019. Jasca Ducato 16:54, 4 September 2006 (EDT)
I regard that as conjecture on your part. I don't think the Professor ever wrote anything about their lot/doom in the East, whether or not they were killed or corrupted. I certainly don't think Saruman was already corrupted by Sauron when in the East (no direct contact between the two before Saruman got hold of a Palantir), let alone that Saruman (or Sauron?) "executed" the two Blue Wizards. There's at least no evidence for that in JRRT's writings, as far as I can tell. --Earendilyon 17:02, 4 September 2006 (EDT)
Like i said. I don't know what happened to them exactely, but it says on this website; and i quote from the Alatar article: "Tolkien mentioned that he did not know what happened to them, and that the evil power in the east was likely too great, and they probably succumbed like Saruman and founded evil cults.". So what i said was not conjecture, Tolkien himself suggested it and although he also said he did not know what had happened, it was he that raised the possibility in the first place. Jasca Ducato 17:08, 4 September 2006 (EDT)
Well, succumbing to is something different than being executed by in my book. There's no info on whether or not they even died, so in my opinion the Infobox cannot give a year of death! (I'm off to bed now, btw, so for further discussion if needed, you'll have to wait.) --Earendilyon 17:16, 4 September 2006 (EDT)
  • No further discussion is need. Both articles say Unknown, probably before III 3019. That should sufice. And like i previously said, i do not know exactely what happend. I even wrote "chances are", not "this happend for definate". Jasca Ducato 17:19, 4 September 2006 (EDT)

Tolkien wrote two opinions on the Blue Wizards. In his letters he remarked that they probably failed and became the originators of dark cults. However in a later essay he wrote called The Five Wizards, he states the following:

"They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of the East ... who would both in the Second Age and Third Age otherwise have ... outnumbered the West."
The Peoples of Middle-earth, Last Writings, The Five Wizards[former link]

Therefor it is highly probably that Tolkien's final intent was that they did in fact have a heavy impact in the east for the good of Middle-earth. However, neither one suggests that they died or failed before or after the War of the Ring. I'm going to go ahead and change it to "unknown". --Narfil Palùrfalas 18:41, 4 September 2006 (EDT)

Meeting - Sunday 5th September[edit]

Hi, Jasca Ducato! Just a quick message to inform you that we are holding our next Meeting on Sunday, 5th September 2010 at 7pm UTC. Whether you are or aren't able to attend, please sign your name on the here. Hope to see you on Sunday! --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 19:34, 30 August 2010 (UTC)