Parentage 2006
Ereinion Gil-galad was the son of Fingon (vide. Quenta Silmarillion - after the fall of Turgon, Ereinion Gil-Galad sone of Fingon was named High King Of The Noldor in Middle Earth.
- I'm afraid this is a question of Canon. But most Tolkienists agree that this was a mistake on the part of Christopher Tolkien, as almost all of Tolkien's later works say he is Orodreth's son. It is not his only marked mistake in the Silmarillion, though the Silmarillion is largely dependable. --Narfil Palùrfalas 09:54, 1 September 2006 (EDT)
Undo
I undid the changes made by an anonymous user showing preference to the version of the published Silmarillion. We have consciously preferred the "later" version for some time; such a pro-Silmarillion revision should not be done ad hoc, but require some discussion and agreement first, as we did with Celeborn. Sage 09:26, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- Other than that, I tend to express a preference on the "later notes". Sage 10:26, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- I have the same preference. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 10:29, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
Sorry for changing it without warning, but as it was simply a rearrangement of the text, I thought it wouldn't be so important, since all the alternate versions are still referenced and everybody can choose whatever s/he prefers. I guess that most people who stumble in this article do it because they have read the Silm or LOTR, not "The Shibboleth of Fëanor", so it's really confusing placing the less-known version first. Moreover, that revised version of the story was never included in the Silmarillion, and C.Tolkien had doubts wether it was definitive or not, or if his father would have included it in the narratives after all.—Unsigned comment by 95.22.94.140 (talk • contribs).
- My preference would be: if Tolkien wrote about a certain concept in any of the works published during his life-time, we use that as the "main" version in an article (no matter if a later note contradicts the concept as originally published). When different posthumously published writings disagree about a concept, we have at least two choices: (1) to use the most well-known version (often = The Silm) or (2) the latest version (final intent). Here, I'm not sure which is best, taking into account the readers of the encyclopedia. The first choice would perhaps be more "encyclopedic", while the second would be more "Tolkienologistic". Perhaps we will have to decide from case to case, unless we want the same standard applied on each and every article.--Morgan 17:45, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- Agree. Though I admit that I have a preference for the most polished works and the main narratives over the essays or notes (late or not). This is mainly because the essays are derived from the narratives, more concerned with linguistic/philosophical matters than the legends themselves, and many times incomplete. I think it's also very difficult to discern what is a true "final intent" and what it's just a fleeting idea, specially when new ideas appear in some notes, but never again reappear in other writings.—Unsigned comment by 95.22.94.140 (talk • contribs).
Gil-galad in the isle of Balar
The published Silmarillion says that Gil-galad went to the isle of Balar and later sent help to Elwing during the Third Kinslaying, but arrived too late. Was this an editorial invention by Christopher? I can't find the original source for this statement, nor for that about Cirdan helping Earendil to build his ship. Maybe should this information go to some "Controversial" section?--88.8.189.71 00:48, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
- Is this controversial? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 18:31, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
- Maybe controversial is not the word, since there's nothing which contradicts it; it's rather an issue of canonicity. I don't know this site's policy when dealing with editorial inventions in The Silmarillion, like Finrod creating the Nauglamír in Nargothrond. But maybe there should be a note saying that these developments were made by Christopher and were not in the originals.--88.8.189.71 19:29, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
Images
I took the liberty to change and add some more images in the article. Lelia's portrait was a featureless elven face, without any context that it was Gil-galad and could have been anyone from Feanor to Legolas; Lelia has a lot of good artwork but this was not one of them and offered nothing to the article, therefore I changed it with a portrait of him holding Vilya.
Same with the portrait of Gil-galad with Aeglos by Maureval, who unexplicably stants like a statue; I preferred a much better portrait with Aeglos, made by Jenny Dolfen. Also I added one related to the Last Alliance, being an important historical event of which we have artwork. Sage 07:17, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
Birthplace and stuff
At first sight I'm fine with having the new info from TNOME added to the History section, but it is not compatible with the idea of him being young during the Dagor Bragollach. I think we should discuss the overview of all the versions and see how to explain them in each section. --LorenzoCB 13:32, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
- I would prefer that the discrepancies on his date of birth were added to Other versions of the legendarium. There are conflicts even within NoMe and it is not easy to separate the details from the conflicting manuscripts to get an exact date. Until a section can be written up (which I would like to have a shot at doing, though others are probably better versed in this subject) I think we should remove the dates but keep the History section ambiguous, retaining statements such as "still young for an elf at the time of the Dagor Bragollach". JR Snow 14:40, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
- I moved the NOME material to OVOTL since I was already making other edits. I hope you don't feel like I'm stepping on your toes, and certainl feel free to further revise as the spirit moves you. --Mord 08:28, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
Parentage 2022
I believe that the parentage of Gil-galad is the most well-known and best-documented case in the Legendarium where JRRT changed his mind, CJRT improperly exercised editorial agency, and CJRT subsequently fessed up to his mistake. There's 0% chance of achieving consensus by endorsing any single explanation; the solution that makes everyone the least unhappy is to cover the entire controversy in its own section.
As such, in my opinion it's best not to relitigate the issue in multiple places in the article - especially not in the infobox. Abbreviating the subject so it can be included briefly in the History section or infobox is necessarily going to either A) show preference to one of the several explanations available or B) result in massive duplication of text. Leaving the parentage issue in the Parentage section and replacing all discussion of parentage elsewhere in the article (including the infobox) with links to the Parentage section is the best way IMO to achieve neutrality, provide all relevant information, and avoid needless repetition.
Furthermore, as to why Gil-galad's parentage deserves special treatment above and beyond other inconsistencies: it is more visible, more complicated, and more significant than the vast majority of OVOTL materials. It's widely-known among fans (the latest edits were the result of Reddit comments), it affects the text of LOTR, and is an actual deliberate/explicit editorial change by CJRT. All these make the parentage question unique and worthy of special-case handling. The remaining OVOTL materials in the article can IMO remain OVOTL, because they refer to earlier and later versions of the character/setting in JRRT's own conception that are contained exclusively in materials JRRT left unpublished in his own lifetime. --Mord 22:52, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
- Per Ar-Zigûr's request, discussion continued in User_talk:LorenzoCB#Gil-galad and TG:CANON --Mord 17:09, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
Better sourcing needed for succession as a reason to move parentage
We need a better source for the reason of Gil-Galad's parentage getting swapped around than using line of succession found in The Silmarillion. Tolkien provided numerous examples of how this was specifically not a straight-forward father-to-son process.
- The rule of the Noldor being committed to Fingolfin by Manwë after Fëanor's (and Finwë's) banishment
- The contest for kingship between Fëanor and Fingolfin/Nolofinwë after Finwë's death (with Nolofinwë prefixing "Finwë" to his name in pursuit of his claim to kingship)
- Fingolfin being first chosen as High King at the council in Mithrim, only after which Maedhros waived his claim
- Finrod prefixing "Finwë" to his father's name only after the death of Fingolfin
- If we include The Nature of Middle-earth material, Finwë himself was effectively appointed the title, not inherited
I did a review of Shibboleth and succession was not used as part of the justification to move Gil-Galad around. Where did this reasoning come from? Oberiko (talk) 13:21, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
- Hello, Oberiko, I agree with you. I can rewrite this section, but I need to check out the texts first, so I'll do it tomorrow since now I'm lacking time for this task today. -- Ar-Zigûr (talk) 16:13, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
High King of the Noldor > High King of the Elves of the West
I don't think we have proper justification to call Gil-galad High King of the Noldor. As far as I can tell, the instances where he was given that title were editorial insertions by C.T.
I believe our consensus is that the most authoritative sources are those which were published during the life of JRRT. If that's the case, then Gil-galad's title should be "acknowledged as High King of the Elves of the West" as specified in LotR.
Tracing it back, we have the following:
The Silmarillion
And when the tidings came to Balar of the fall of Gondolin and the death of Turgon, Ereinion Gil-galad son of Fingon was named High King of the Noldor in Middle-earth.
This we know must, at least partially, be an editorial invention by CT due to the insertion of the Fingon parentage. According to Arda Reconstructed: "And the final sentence about Gil-galad is, of course, an editorial insertion, since he did not even exist at the time the Quenta Noldorinwa was written"
Gil-galad ‘Star of Radiance’, the name by which Ereinion son of Fingon was afterwards known. After the death of Turgon he became the last High King of the Noldor in Middle-earth, and remained in Lindon after the end of the First Age; leader with Elendil of the Last Alliance of Men and Elves and slain with him in combat with Sauron.
The Index was solely the work of CT.
Unfinished Tales
Gil-galad ‘Star of Radiance’, the name by which Ereinion son of Fingon was known. After the death of Turgon he became the last High King of the Noldor in Middle-earth, and remained in Lindon after the end of the First Age; leader with Elendil of the Last Alliance of Elves and Men and slain with him in combat with Sauron. Called King of the Elves. Land of Gil-galad, Lindon. See Ereinion.
Again, only given the title "High King of the Noldor" in the Index, which was written by CT. Here it even specifies that in the text he's actually referred to as "King of the Elves".
Other works
- Lost Road: Gil-galad first mentioned; only described as an "Elf-king"
- War of the Jewels: Gil-galad mentioned, never called king
- The Peoples of Middle-earth:
- Foundation of the Grey Havens, and the Kingdom of Lindon. This was ruled by Gil-galad son of Felagund, chief of all the Noldor who did not yet depart to Avallon.
- Galad occurs also in the epessë of Ereinion (‘scion of kings’) by which he was chiefly remembered in legend, Gil-galad ‘star of radiance’: he was the last king of the Eldar in Middle-earth, and the last male descendant of Finwë except Elrond the Half-elven.
- Rodnor Gil-galad escaped and eventually came to Sirion’s Mouth and was King of the Ñoldor there.
- Nature of Middle-earth
- Gilgalad became king in Lindon (under [?Suz[erainty] or?Sway] of Galadriel) about SA 10–20 after departure of Galadriel and Celeborn.
- As in the name Gil-galad ‘star of radiance’ given to Finwain, last High-king of the Eldar, because of the radiance of his silver hair, armour, and shield that, it is said, could even in the moonlight be seen from many leagues afar.
Oberiko (talk) 14:31, 5 October 2025 (UTC)
- I am against second guessing the wording in books that were edited by Christopher Tolkien. Christopher Tolkien had access to all his father's writings, had the possibility to talk to his father while he still lived and was known to have been used as a test-listener and discussion partner at least for the Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. He was probably the person who knew his father's writings and ideas about that subject best. We do not know what written sources from J.R.R. Tolkien that Christopher Tolkien read or conversations that Christopher Tolkien had with J.R.R. Tolkien exist that have not been published or that we are not aware of.
Christopher Tolkien specifies in his Foreword to The Silmarillion that he provided a full index, but he does not specify on which written or oral information the entries in his index are based.
In the narrative of the Silmarillion in the chapter of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin "And when the tidings came to Balar of the fall of Gondolin and the death of Turgon, Ereinion Gil-galad son of Fingon was named High King of the Noldor in Middle-earth." was used and in the chapter Of the Voyage of Eärendil and the War of Wrath "Gil-galad the High King" was used twice. I am no expert on the history and authorship of these two chapters. As IvarTheBoneless has already pointed out on the editing channel of TG's Discord in The Peoples of Middle-earth in chapter XI. The Shibboleth of Feanor in the section The parentage of Gil-galad Christopher Tolkien quotes from an isolated note found with the genealogies, scribbled at great speed but nonetheless dated, August 1965 where Gil-galad is mentioned as the son of Orodreth "Rodnor Gil-galad escaped and eventually came to Sirion's Mouth and was King of the Noldor there."
In the chapter Akallabêth of the Silmarillion, which was written by J.R.R. Tolkien "where they might speak still with the Eldar in the kingdom of Gil-galad" is used. In the chapter Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age of the Silmarillion, which was also written by J.R.R. Tolkien "That country had of old been named Lindon by the Noldor, and this name it bore thereafter; and many of the Eldar still dwelt there, lingering, unwilling yet to forsake Beleriand where they had fought and laboured long. Gil-galad son of Fingon was their king, and with him was Elrond Half-elven, son of Eärendil the Mariner and brother of Elros first king of Númenor." and "Elendil the Tall and Gil-galad the High King were no more." were used. So the title "High King" is used for Gil-galad. The Tale of Years of the Second Age in chapter VI The Tale of Years of the Second Age in The Peoples of Middle-earth was written by J.R.R. Tolkien. There " Foundation of the Grey Havens, and the Kingdom of Lindon. This was ruled by Gil-galad son of Felagund,(8) chief of all the Noldor who did not yet depart to Avallon." was used. In the second paragraph of the introduction to the section The Second Age of Appendix B The Tale of Year of The Lord of the Rings "In Lindon north of the Lune dwelt Gil-galad, last heir of the kings of the Noldor in exile. He was acknowledged as High King of the Elves of the West." was used. In my opinion this justifies whatever editorially inserted wording Christopher Tolkien chose. Since there were not only Noldor, but also Sindar in Lindon, in Eregion and in Rivendell, Elrond was Gil-galad's vice-regent in Rivendell according to LOTR and UT and since Elrond was a descendent of Thingol (the King of the Sindarin realm of Doriath in Beleriand) and seems to have acknowledged the leadership of Gil-galad, it is justified that Gil-galad is not only the High King of the Noldor, but also the High King of the Elves of the West. --Akhôrahil (talk) 16:35, 5 October 2025 (UTC)
- I agree that High King of the Elves of the West should take precedence over "High King of the Noldor" because The Silmarillion was posthumously published while The Lord of the Rings was published in J.R.R. Tolkien's lifetime. In addition, keeping this page at the current name creates confusion with the similarly named King of the Noldor page.Dour1234 (talk) 18:59, 5 October 2025 (UTC)