Talk:Battle of the Powers

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Were there any casualties on either side? I know not much is written about it, but I got the feeling that nothing really died. Ælfwine228 11:24, 2 July 2008 (EDT)

Well, there was little population on Arda at this time. It is possible that a Maia or two was lost on the side of the Valar, but Morgoth's forces took a whipping, and thus some serious losses.--Theoden1 13:55, 2 July 2008 (EDT)


This article assumes that the Battle of the Powers was the first phase of the War. But in the text itself, while it can be interpreted like that, it's not totally clear. The Battle of the Powers could have been another name for the whole War. Sage 21:21, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Agree, I would merge it with War for the Sake of the Elves and remove the non-canon name. What about Siege of Utumno? --LorenzoCB 23:07, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
That's correct. As for the siege of Utumno it should be merged too, as it's not in capitals. Robert Foster also mentions it as War of the Powers, in another place of the Silmarillion. Sage 11:56, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
I have always thought that the Battle of the Powers (mentioned twice, I think) and the War of the Powers (once) are the actual names used of the war. "War for the Sake of the Elves" is afterwards capitalized from this one sentence: "Never did Melkor forget that this war was made for the sake of the Elves,..." Thus least canonical of the three names. --Tik 23:08, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
I made the rename, but I'm not 100% sure if the others should merge with it. For now I leave this page as is, linking to the "War" one. Sage 11:13, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
I can see in the text that there can be some confusion about the event(s). I agree with the merge. It seems to me that Battle of the Powers is the intended name of the entire conflict. Also the line "But when the Battle was ended and from the ruin of the North great clouds arose and hid the stars, the Valar drew Melkor back to Valinor..."(Silmarillion, Chapter 3) could be interpreted as further confirmation about the naming. My proposal is to have Battle of the Powers and Siege of Utumno merge into the War of the Powers article and rename that one Battle of the Powers with a few notes about the unclear naming of the event.--Gaetano 22:01, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
I finally could check the HoMe Index and found a couple of things: "Battle of Powers" is a name created by Christopher for his Silmarillion; Tolkien always used "Battle of the Gods". "Siege of Utumno" is nowhere, the capitalization is by the fans. "War of the Gods" is only given a couple of times in earlier versions. I agree with Gaetano's proposal. There is no need to have an article for the "Siege of Utumno": even when it is a proper event, it is never told as separated from the Battle, specially in the BoLT, in which the battle was basically the siege.--LorenzoCB 19:16, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
I agree with Gaetano and LorenzoCB. Why was this discussion ignored? Can I suggest we go about correcting this, please? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 15:42, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
I took care of all the links of "War for the Sake of the Elves" and "Siege of Utumno". It would be nice to include a section on the matter of the different names used by both Tolkiens, but I don't have all my HoMe tomes with me now, I'll do it when I can. I think the "War for the Sake of the Elves" page should be deleted, but that's in your hands, Mith. --LorenzoCB 10:57, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for doing the edits Lorenzo. I'll check what else can be improved here as well. Gaetano 13:44, 22 June 2020 (UTC)