Talk:Celebrían

Sinda?

The thought that Celebrian would be "racially" a Sinda, being the daughter of Celeborn, can be correct. However the Sindar seem to have stopped existing as a racial and political entity in the Second Age. Sindar are the Teleri of Beleriand under Thingol and the High Kingship of Doriath. The name "Sindar" and "Grey-elves" is rarely used in the SA context, mainly to refer to the survivors who soon merged with other Elves. I don't think that Celebrian, being an Elf born in the Second Age, would identify as a Sinda. Sage 07:23, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Agree, which is why I always gave her a more ambiguous infobox. I shall change it back and leave a note to not change it again without discussion. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 11:38, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

Year of birth

Someone has added Celebrian's year of birth as S.A. 300 according to NoME (part 1, chapter 9). However, in that same book there are many other alternative dates of her birth:

• S.A. 260 according to the part 1, chapter 10
• S.A. 350 according to the part 1, chapter 10
• S.A. 850 according to the part 1, chapter 11
• S.A. 9 according to the part 1, chapter 18
• S.A. 45 according to the part 1, chapter 18

So, what date, if any, should be adopted in the main section and infobox of the article on Celebrian? I propose that none should be taken up, and that all of the above mentioned dates should go to the OVOTL. - IvarTheBoneless 14:15, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

The way I see it, these all are just speculations. So yes none of them should be adopted.--Shivam 14:25, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

To update my above comment, the latest date (from c. 1965) of Celebrian's birth year is S.A. 45 (found in The Nature of Middle-earth, part one - chapter 18: 'Elvish Ages & Numenorean', p. 149). Granted, all these dates are fluid, but...ehh...it never stopped TG from adopting them, since so much of Tolkien's posthumous material shares the same characteristics.

Therefore, in a stunning turn of events, I propose that we change Celebrian's year of birth from S.A. 300 to S.A. 45, with footnotes to any respective articles dealing with this subject - explaining the fluidity of these dates (such as what I recently did on the subject of Finduilas' year of birth).

Also, the only reason why the S.A. 300 date was adopted to begin with is that a particular user, no doubt in the process of reading only the first quarter of the NoME, became very enthusiastic about discovering this little tidbit, and then proceeded to apply it to the rest of TG - and now, 2 years later, their edits practically became a gospel in the fandom.

And thirdly, Celebrian should definitely have a 'Sindar' infobox, since her father Celeborn was a Sinda (in the same way that Galadriel, even though she is half-Vanya, is still counted as a Noldo - similar to how children inherit their father's surname in most of the real world). - IvarTheBoneless (talk) 17:35, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

I would be in favour of having a date that is most inline with dates provided in other info boxes, and I think this should be (as you state) the latest revision from NoME but with a note linking to the various revisions.

I also agree with the Sinda infobox. JR Snow (talk) 10:16, 14 October 2023 (UTC)