User talk:Mith/2020

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Can you add some pictures for me?[edit]

Hey Mith! I've gotten really into the Shadow of Mordor games and I wanted to write some articles! I've been working on expanding the Shadow of Mordor and Shadow of War articles, but I am also making some on the side characters. I'm currently working on one for Ratbag The Coward. When it's done, could you add some pictures for me? Unsigned comment by Shelob'sWeb (talk • contribs).

I don't upload images for other users, but once you have made sufficient edits you will be able to upload images yourself. However, this is Tolkien Gateway and we generally don't go into that level of detail and the probably better belongs on other wikis. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 16:34, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Ainulindali Project[edit]

Hi! I'm currently working on a project comparing the main versions of the Ainulindale: User:LorenzoCB/Sandbox#Ainulindali. Could I make it an article as Tolkien Gateway research, please? Also, would it fall on copyright infringement? I don't think so, as I'm not giving the full text, but the paragraphs separately. What do you think? --LorenzoCB 13:26, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

What you're doing is undoubtedly interesting. Unfortunately, it is beyond the scope of this wiki and I almost certainly believe it does amount to copyright infringement when you consider just how much text you are copying. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 13:29, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
Ok, I'll remove it from my sandbox as soon as I find what to do. Thanks.--LorenzoCB 14:21, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Orcs of Isengard[edit]

I was wondering if I could make an article on the Orcs in Isengard. Because not all the "Isengarders" were Uruk-hai and Half-orcs/Goblin-men ---- the company led by Uglúk consisted of Uruk-hai like Lugdush as well as Orcs such as Snaga; after imprisoning Gandalf for refusing to submit to Sauron or help him gain the One Ring for himself, Saruman gathered Wolves and Orcs to Isengard.

But don't do they also fall in the Orcs of the Misty Mountains category, as that's were most of them came from to attack Rohan? So, do they deserve their own page, or are they better listed among the Orcs that inhabited Moria, Gundabad, Goblin-Town...? --LordoftheEarth 09:20, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Theoretically I don't have an issue with it, but in practical terms I think it might be too granular and not have that much information. What was your thinking? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 16:25, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Sauron pictures[edit]

Hello there. I appreciate your recent hard work fixing some articles, but I disagree with removing Sauron's pictures. It was me who added most of them on the grounds that such a big article about a millennia-spanning character would be more aestheticaly pleasing and readable if there is a pic for almost every section. Sage 18:38, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

The problem was it was just over-crowded, particularly on higher resolutions; on my computer they were just all stacking on top of each other and it looked a bit of a mess, to be honest. I'm happy for a couple more to come back in but we really can't have an image every second or third paragraph like we had before. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 20:05, 14 June 2020 (UTC)


Hi, could you please allow others to edit the templates like it was before? --LorenzoCB 16:35, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

We want to make a template for the Lords of Gondolin: Talk:Twelve Houses of the Gondothlim#A New Template for the Leaders of the Twelve Houses. It is fine if you want to take responsibility for the templates, but don't disappear then.--LorenzoCB 09:43, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

I've put a suggestion on Talk:Twelve Houses of the Gondothlim - let me know what you think. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 08:58, 20 August 2020 (UTC)


I am sorry, did I mix something up? In the entry "Sorontur", there is SORO and reference to Meril-i-Turinqi for -tur. The name Sorontur is mentioned in "The Coming of the Valar and the Building of Valinor" in the description of the house of Manwë. BartekChom 19:58, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Apologies, because the reference was halfway through the sentence I assumed it only applied to the bit in brackets. I have moved it to the end of the sentence and removed the {{fact}}s. Apologies for the confusion. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 20:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
I am sorry, it applied to the part before it. I cannot see "Thorntor". This name probably appears in another part of HoME. In The Book of Lost Tales I do not see much about the Ilkorin language. BartekChom 16:01, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Main Page Error[edit]

Hey Mith, I've noticed for the past two weeks (though I've forgotten to mention it the first and second time) that one the place on the Main Page where it indicates the day in the Shire-calendar, the word "Mersday" is misspelled as "Merstag." I believe that's a typo, but it's causing a redlink and I wanted to bring it to your attention. --Holdwine Meriadoc (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 23:15, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. I've fixed it. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 20:45, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Ilinsor and the Moon[edit]

I am sorry for language errors and writing in ugly and unclear style. Thank you for your corrections. However I would like to preserve details that I added: a) that Ilinsor was Súru, not one of Mánir (directly in the article about him - I have already readded it) b) (ad [1]) that the Rose was like Silpion (besides it seems that removing dew was the explanations of the phases and wobbling could be another detail, maybe explanation for differing orientation of the crescent moon). c) Before [2] I must have written completely unclear. Eriol was supposed to visit Gilfanon after both of them finish their stay in Lindo's Cottage of Lost Play. (Gilfanon even said (probably joked) to Eriol that one could think that Lindo tries to get rid of two guests at once.) Valar trying to heal the Trees only were only wasting light. Manwë and Aulë told so. I nowhere in the chapter see "rose" with small "r" as a name for the Moon (roses in the garden of Vána withered). That the Sun was too hot is an important detail - that is why the Moon was necessary, and that the Moon was heavier that the Sun is suggested in many places. BartekChom 16:34, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

On Ilinsor, it is confusing to have "Sylphs (Suru)" without explanation; it's not helpful to the reader. Either remove one or explain both. I removed Suru as the link was the Sylphs, but I've just changed it if it makes you feel more comfortable.
On the Moon, I think we were straying too far into trivia with a lot of tangential detail on a concept Tolkien later abandoned. That's why I shortened it. If you think I have misrepresented the text then please change it, although I would encourage you to review your spelling and grammar before commiting an edit. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 20:56, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
Thank you. Only that I like these details the most. They are in separate sections and do not disturb these reading about canon.
Definitely I should check for typos, but I have problems with vocabulary and style. Eg. When to write "said", when "told"? Is it a mechanical rule: "somebody said something" but "somebody told somebody something"? Is it better to use "for" or "because"? When to use "the" before proper names and uncountable and plural nouns? When after "and" ("the sun and (the) moon") and "of" ("the end of (the) night")?
I start to suspect that should be and Űr should be Ûr. Windows-1250, encoding used in Poland, does not have Ê or Û. Should I correct it or wait for someone who has the English version to confirm? BartekChom 05:14, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
I get that you liked those details but they were disconnected from other sentences and needed to actually be a part of the narrative. In terms of English, I can't really provide English instruction, but I can confirm that the terms are Vê and Ûr; if you are unsure in future I would suggest avoiding editing articles with those included. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 06:33, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
Thank you. Next time I will ask when in doubts. Now I am going to try to connect the details with the narrative. BartekChom 16:01, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Devices and more devices[edit]

Hi Mith! I just made a suggestion here, but I wanted to point you out that [:Category:Images of signs and symbols] needs a clean up. There are up to three files of each image and I don't see the need of that: [:File:John Howe - Icon Rohan transparent.png], [:File:John Howe - Icon Rohan.jpg], [:File:John Howe - Rohan nation icon.gif]. --LorenzoCB 19:32, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

I agree. The duplications I think were because we were using them in different ways (such as in userbox), but I think in the above example only the first one need be kept. Cheers! --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 15:00, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
Done. I simplified things with the symbols categories. I know that some userboxers are uglier know, but they all have the same style know. If someone changes the current icons with some transparent, great, but I hope it is applied to all and not randomly with several duplicates. --LorenzoCB 23:53, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
I did it myself. Sorry for uploading them AGAIN and making you delete so many things, but now they all have the same format, name and size, and the userboxes look nice. --LorenzoCB 10:23, 12 March 2021 (UTC)


In the article Timeline/First_Age, dashes in this line look strange:

The remaining Sons of Fëanor--Maedhros, Maglor, Amrod, and Amras - begin to feel tormented by their unfulfilled oath.

I suspect that they should be the same (or should they not?), but what variant is correct?

The remaining Sons of FëanorMaedhros, Maglor, Amrod, and Amras–begin to feel tormented by their unfulfilled oath.
The remaining Sons of FëanorMaedhros, Maglor, Amrod, and Amras—begin to feel tormented by their unfulfilled oath.
The remaining Sons of FëanorMaedhros, Maglor, Amrod, and Amras – begin to feel tormented by their unfulfilled oath.
Like in the footer: Original design by Vesa Piittinen, redesigned by User:Mith – original artwork used in design by John Howe and Ted Nasmith
The remaining Sons of FëanorMaedhros, Maglor, Amrod, and Amras — begin to feel tormented by their unfulfilled oath.

BartekChom 05:45, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Done. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 15:01, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
Thank you very much. BartekChom 15:48, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Races of BoLT[edit]

Hi there, sorry for forgetting to reply to you. I created that category with the possibility in mind that we might create some categories about BoLT-specific topics, like characters and locations (not such category existing yet) that mainly appear there. Sage 08:46, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

OK, so what's the plan with that category? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 16:07, 31 October 2020 (UTC)


Care to explain why you reverted my edit on Arwen? Thanks. 08:14, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Lack of citations. When you press "rollback" it is impossible to provide a reason but you don't get to declare how this wiki functions. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 15:18, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for explaining. I'll rework the content to include citations. 18:46, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

F.O. 171 or F.O. 172?[edit]

Hi Mith! I noticed that references to F.O. 172 across the wiki have been mostly corrected to F.O. 171. I can't find a reason for this that wouldn't also apply to other Fourth Age years; the note on F.O. 171 states only that the Gondor reckoning of the date of copying of the Red Book of Westmarch from the Thain's Book is F.O. 172 without getting into the why of the matter. Can you shed some light on this? I'd like to add a more robust explanation on F.O. 171 for the discrepancy if possible. Thanks! -- 23:21, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Check the note on Fourth Age 171. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 11:39, 30 December 2020 (UTC)



What is the intended usage for {{HM|Scheme}} referring to the Reader's Companion? There isn't a section called "Scheme" in the book and I don't see a consistent usage here in citations. Does it refer to the "Chronologies, Calendars and Moons" table in pages xlviii and xlix?

And another question: I see the date-articles have some inconsistently placed <noinclude>...</noinclude> tags. As far as I know these tags are used in template pages. Do you know who put them? Should I remove them when I see them? Sage 08:47, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

I see one of the effects of the "noinclude"-tag is that it prevents the Table of Contents from appearing, which is perhaps undesireable for the Date-articles. However if this is the reason, we could use NOTOC instead. Sage 09:06, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
No idea - this was Morgan's template! --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 20:54, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
Ah, the old Her Majesty template. It was created by Ederchil way back, originally intended as a general citation template for the HoMe books and some other works. I can't really answer your questions, Sage, since this template has mostly been superseeded by individual templates. However, the "Scheme" referes to the "colored reproduction of a manuscript page showing a synoptic time-scheme used by Tolkien while writing "The Lord of the Rings". It summarizes the movements of characters between the 8th and the 12th of March 1419 (Shire Calendar).".--Morgan 21:23, 6 December 2020 (UTC)