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what is the diffrance between Uruk hai and the Black Uruks of mordor

Uruk-hai lifespan[edit]

This article states: "Lifespan: Possibly eternal" Is there any evidence for this? Or is this purely speculation? Ilúvatar 09:14, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

speculation. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 09:56, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Well, more an assumption. -- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  22:56, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Bolg, son of Azog was the general that lead the orcs during the Battle of the Five Armies. His father Azog was slain by Dáin, son of Náin in the Battle of Azalnulbizar some 200 years earlier. This is at least an evidence that orcs were as long-lived as Dúnedain and Dwarves. If they are immortal is not clear though --Thalion 18:11, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

[carnsolus] orcs are not immortal, according to tolkien in morgoth's ring:

"They could be slain, and they were subject to disease; but apart from these ills they died and were not immortal, even according to the manner of the Quendi; indeed they appear to have been by nature short-lived compared with the span of Men of higher race, such as the Edain."

and if orcs are not, neither are the uruk hai --Unsigned comment by (talk).

That passage by J.R.R. Tollien from Morgoth's Ring is only an unfinished piece of work that was not published during the lifetime of J.R.R. Tolkien. Tolkien had various theories about the origin of the orcs, which probably have an influence on whether they are immortal (if they were created from elves) or not. I recommend that you look at the Orcs/Origin page. --Akhorahil 08:24, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Uruks and Uruk-hai[edit]

Is there anything to suggest that "Uruk-hai" is not simply the Black Speech plural of "uruk", while the Westron plural is rendered as "uruks"? So far as I can tell they are used pretty much interchangeably in the text of LotR. Only the Isengard Orcs consistently use "Uruk-hai". The Mordor Orcs and the Appendices use both terms (Appendix F, Other Races; Appendix A, Kings of the Mark, mentions "uruks" in service of Saruman; the tracker Orc in Mordor talks about "rebel Uruk-hai" (in the context of the Tower of Cirith Ungol fiasco).

"Uruk-hai" would simply mean "Orcs", but is used by the large fighting Orcs to refer to themselves (possibly because they consider themselves *real Orcs*, not like those sissy snaga). Many cultures IRL have names for themselves which translate as "people" or "real people". The term "uruk" would then have been borrowed into Westron from the Black Speech to refer to these breeds, often with the Westron plural (just as in English sometimes people will use the Latin plural of a Latin-origin word, and sometimes an Anglicized plural). --Unsigned comment by (talk).


Looking around some related articles, I see the notion that the Uruks were bred in Minas Morgul during the Watchful Peace. Is it supported clearly somewhere? It seems to me an intepolation of the chronology: the Nazgul remain quiet in MM, then Sauron returns and soon after the Uruk-hai first appear out of Mordor. Filling the gaps we can deduce that they were bred in MM during the Peace, but this is not the only possible interpretation. The phrase "out of Mordor" could equally mean that they already existed, but known to be only in Mordor, and that it was their first sortie. Unless I am missing something of course. Sage 00:37, 14 March 2020 (UTC)