From Tolkien Gateway
Latest comment: 2 September 2020 by LorenzoCB in topic Picture

One claim completely removed

"It was the largest architectural structure ever to have existed, surpassing Angband and Thangorodrim in the First Age and Barad-dûr in the Second and Third Age."

That line bothered me to no end. We do not even know for sure how big Thangorodrim was. It's too sweeping and absolute with no sources. I tried to find a direct quote that it was literally the biggest thing ever made, in Middle-earth, and I couldn't. I don't even know where to look, but I tried Silm. and MR. Also, I just didn't like it. Sorry, I don't have any better reasons than that.

The other issue I ran into is I don't know how to refer to Valian Year in template form. I tried VY and YV, but neither worked (or I typed something wrong). --Elf-esteem 03:02, 26 December 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It's very conscientious of you, but you don't need to explain editorial decisions via talk pages - that is what the edit summary is for. Talk pages are for discussions rather than individual editor's statements.
There is currently no template for Valian Years, nor do we have articles on them. I would suggest just referencing them without links for now. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 11:39, 26 December 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Bleh, sorry, and will do for Valian Years. Okay, as to the Utumno etymology, what I dug up is that the translation as 'Dark Pit' or 'Hell' comes from The Lord of the Rings: a Reader's Companion p. 297, but I cannot verify that source material or how that translation was determined because I do not have that book. If anyone does have it, try there? --Elf-esteem 07:20, 27 December 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]


The picture is wrongly used in this article, and it is wrongly in the category "Images of Utumno". Melkor was chained in the Halls of Mandos, not in Utumno. I was about to remove it and correct its category but I wondered why nobody noticed, and I thought asking first. Sage 16:28, 2 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Melkor was chained and then taken to Valinor to be judged. The image clarily shows he is been dragged out from a dark pit to a frozen land. It is clarily Utumno, unless the artist had explained otherwise. --LorenzoCB 16:34, 2 September 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]