Talk:Fëanor

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Latest comment: 16 March by LorenzoCB in topic Main image change #2

Eye color

When making the infobox, I purposefully left Fëanor's eye color blank. I can't think of anywhere that it is attested, though I strongly suspect it's grey. Does anyone know of a source where Tolkien stated the color of his eyes? —Tar-Telperien 18:25, 2 December 2006 (EST)

All Elves' eyes were grey, but Fëanor's, I believe, were darker than usual, and yet with a fiery light. I'll check the Sil's description. --Narfil Palùrfalas 18:32, 2 December 2006 (EST)
I seem to have. . . er. . . misplaced my Silmarillion copy. Anyway, I'm pretty sure that's right. --Narfil Palùrfalas 18:37, 2 December 2006 (EST)
In The Silmarillion it just says that his eyes were "piercingly bright", which tells us nothing about their actual color. —Tar-Telperien 19:24, 2 December 2006 (EST)
All Elves have grey eyes? I had no idea? Where did you find that bit of information? Corsair Caruso 03:02, 4 October 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Not all of the Quendi had grey eyes, just dark hair and grey eyes was the most common appearance among them. Perhaps fav type of beauty of JRRT, referenced from his wife? Finwe for example had grey-blue eyes, Olwe - blue. For general descriptions check Quendi and Eldar in HoME and other essays, for help check this set of quotations we've gathered at the Silmarillion club at deviantART - link: [1] (Sorry, I forgot how to tag URL properly.) Greetings, Sirielle 21:02, 20 November 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
He was a Noldo, so his eyes were either grey or blue.Unsigned comment by Laurelin93 (talk • contribs).

FA Nomination?

This is a good article! You should put it up for FA!--Galdor of the Havens 20:38, 4 December 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It has some major source issues. Currently, the reference list is unorganized and contains both canon and noncanon sources, making it unclear what exactly came from where. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 20:54, 4 December 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Still, after a small bit of work, and drastically lowering the span of which an article is featured (maybe to a week), this article could be featured.--Galdor of the Trees 17:45, 5 December 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Order of birth

Throughout Tolkien's latest writings Curufin is listed as the fourth son of Fëanor. Yet Christopher Tolkien doesn't seem to care about that tiny fact. Woolly Mammoth 17:16, 30 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

"His sons were too occupied in war and feuds to pay attention to such matters, save Maglor who was a poet, and Curufin, his fourth and favourite son to whom he gave his own name..." - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Shibboleth of Fëanor Woolly Mammoth 17:16, 30 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Main image change

The main image is expressive, but is little and dark, while the wiki has lots of images that describe the character better. I propose File:Venlian - Heart of Venlian.jpeg, which includes many atributes. But there are others pretty nice: File:Jenny Dolfen - Feanor's Last Stand.jpg, File:Anna Lee - Feanor.jpg, File:Venlian - Feanaro.jpg. --LorenzoCB 16:35, 17 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I agree, I like your proposal image because the article is lacking an image of the Silmarils which are synonymous to Fëanor. Gaetano 20:26, 17 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I concur. Holdwine Meriadoc (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 21:31, 17 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have no idea how many votes are necessary to approve a proposal, but I changed it. If an admin thinks that a more modest image would be better, I agree. --LorenzoCB 22:13, 17 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Frankly, that image looks a bit too...well...Conan the Barbarian-like, for lack of a better term, lol. While I understand that including Silmarils in an image of Feanor might seem like a good thing, given their importance to his character, I still think this is a better representation of him. Or, perhaps, this one: File:Venlian - Feanor.jpg. --IvarTheBoneless
You could argue that the first image also looks like its from Conan the Barbarian. I like the second image but again I prefer one with the jewels. If there is one I am open for a change. Gaetano 15:00, 25 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I liked the previous image, but I think the Jenny Dolfen option was better than the Venlian one chosen. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 09:03, 20 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I feel like this one: File:Sara M. Morello - Feanor and the Silmarils.jpg might also work, any thoughts? (I know it's been a while). It seems to have a bit less of the, um, Conan the Barbarian effect, at least. The Jenny Dolfen one's not bad either, although I get that it's nice to have the Silmarils.--Grace18 21:35, 24 December 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think that's a good choice. I too like the Jenny Dolfen one, but I agree that we should include the Silmarils in the picture. --Ancalagon the Black 00:02, 26 December 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Just noticed we never really reached a consensus on this. Any other opinions? --Grace18 20:06, 31 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I think the current image is fine as is. Unsigned comment by 141.101.76.29 (talk • contribs).
Personally I think either Jenny Dolfen or Sara M Morello one work better. Feanor is primarly remembered as a crafter, not Conan. Turiannerevarine 02:47, 1 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I prefer the one by Irsanna - I think it perfectly captures both the intensity and subtlety of Feanor in one image. IvarTheBoneless 12:50, 1 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

High King

I would like to point out that Feanor was the high king of the Noldor before he died. It was Maedhos who gave the title to Fingolfin rather than himself, but Faenor was the high king since Finwe died. Dour1234, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Known study and influence on language

Considering the central role of language, and Feanor's central role within that, I reckon it's worth a sub-section to catalogue. I'll keep points here until we have enough to add.

  • This was the situation when Fëanor, early in his career, turned his attention to matters of language and writing. It is said that he soon advanced far beyond the loremasters of his time. He made collections of all the available lore, oral and written, concerning Quenya in earlier days, and studied in detail its relations with Telerin. He is said also, being then in his youth before the days of his discontent, to have learned "more than any other of the Eldar in Arda" of the language of the Valar. This he got mostly from Aule,[note 1] and so enlarged his view by experience of a tongue wholly different in sounds and structure from his native language. But Fëanor soon turned to other matters; and in any case his primary interest was in writing, in its practical and its decorative aspects rather than as an accurate phonetic transcription. Not that he was without interest in phonetic analysis. He was indeed superior in this department to any of his predecessors; and the alphabet, or alphabetic system, that he devised provided the means of expression for many more individual sounds than those that actually existed in Quenya or Telerin. Though being primarily made for their expression, it was naturally largely conditioned by the phonetic character and range of these languages.[1]
  • Fëanor, before the growth of his discontent, is said to have learned more of Valarin than any others before his time, and his knowledge must at any rate have far surpassed the little that is now recorded; but what he knew he kept to himself, and he refused to transmit it even to the Lambengolmor because of his quarrel with the Valar.[2]
  • Though Fëanor after the days of his first youth took no more active part in linguistic lore and enquiry, he is credited by tradition with the foundation of a school of Lambengolmor or ‘Loremasters of Tongues’ to carry on this work. This continued in existence among the Ñoldor, even through the rigours and disasters of the Flight from Aman and the Wars in Beleriand, and it survived indeed to return to Eressea.[3]
  • The whole Shibboleth issue around þ > s
  • The Noldor, before they made the change, accused the Vanyar of confusing the two sounds. In fact if left to unheeded change they would probably have merged in Quenya hw. Their near approach (by slackening the spirantal friction of f) before the separation of Vanyar and Ñoldor is seen in the development of phu- > *hwu- > hu-, as in Quenya huine ‘gloom’, unrelieved darkness (as a night without stars or moon), Telerin fuine of same sense, Sindarin fuin ‘night’. Later when the merging had been checked in Ñoldorin it was one of Fëanor’s jests to declare that the Vanyar called his father Hwinwe and himself Hwëanáro.[4]
  • It was, however, certainly the contact with Sindarin and the enlargement of their experience of linguistic change (especially the much swifter and more uncontrolled shifts observable in Middle-earth) that stimulated the studies of the linguistic lore-masters, and it was in Beleriand that theories concerning Primitive Eldarin and the interrelation of its known descendants were developed. In this Fëanor played little part, except in so far as his own work and theories before the Exile had laid the foundations upon which his successors built. He himself perished too early in the war against Morgoth, largely because of his recklessness, to do more than note the differences between the dialects of North Sindarin (which was the only one he had time to learn) and the Western[5]
  1. But the later legend that Aule also acquainted him with the language that he had made for the Dwarves may be an addition due to the fame of Fëanor

References

  1. J.R.R. Tolkien, "From Quendi and Eldar, Appendix D" (edited by Carl F. Hostetter), in Vinyar Tengwar, Number 39, July 1998
  2. J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), The War of the Jewels, "Part Four. Quendi and Eldar: Appendix D. *Kwen, Quenya, and the Elvish (especially Ñoldorin) words for 'Language': Note on the 'Language of the Valar'"
  3. J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), The War of the Jewels, "Part Four. Quendi and Eldar: Appendix D. *Kwen, Quenya, and the Elvish (especially Ñoldorin) words for 'Language'"
  4. J.R.R. Tolkien, "From The Shibboleth of Fëanor" (edited by Carl F. Hostetter), in Vinyar Tengwar, Number 41, July 2000, Author's notes # 1
  5. J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), The Peoples of Middle-earth, "XI. The Shibboleth of Fëanor", "The names of Finwë's descendants", p. 421

Weapons

Two quotes on the weapons and armour made by Feanor which I reckon we'll want to include at some point:

Now Thingol had in Menegroth deep armouries filled with great wealth of weapons: metal wrought like fishes’ mail and shining like water in the moon; swords and axes, shields and helms, wrought by Telchar himself or by his master Gamil Zirak the old, or by elven-wrights more skilful still. For some things he had received in gift that came out of Valinor and were wrought by Fëanor in his mastery, than whom no craftsman was greater in all the days of the world.[1]
But now the lords of the Noldor took out their swords and spears and sharpened them, re-strung their bows and filled their quivers with arrows. And they made shields in those days and emblazoned them with devices of silver and gold and gems. These only they wore abroad, and of other weapons they did not speak, for each believed that he alone had received the warning. But when Fëanor got wind of what was being done, he made for himself a secret forge, of which not even Melkor was aware; and there he wrought fell swords of tempered steel for himself and for his seven sons, and tall helms with plumes of red. Bitterly Mahtan rued the day when he had taught to the husband of Nerdanel, his daughter, all the lore of metal work that he learned of Aulë.[2]

References

  1. J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), Unfinished Tales, "Narn i Hîn Húrin (The Tale of the Children of Húrin)", "The Departure of Túrin"
  2. J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), Morgoth's Ring, "Part Three. The Later Quenta Silmarillion: (II) The Second Phase: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor", §52b

Main image change #2

In the Discord server we made a poll to change the main image. The most voted were (6 votes), (5 votes) and (3 votes). Please, those who did not participate, preferably vote for one of these or suggest another one. I'll change the image in a week or so. LorenzoCB (talk) 09:15, 1 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

As nobody said anything here in the talkpage, Soni Alcorn-Hender's illustration is the winner. Maybe in a couple of years we can consider changing the image again. --LorenzoCB (talk) 21:27, 16 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]